[Podcast] Episode 229: Desizing the Church with Karl Vaters

We sit down with Karl Vaters, a veteran pastor and author of Desizing the Church, to tackle one of the ministry’s most pressing topics: the cultural obsession with church size. Karl shares his journey of shifting from a numbers-driven focus to understanding the profound value of building healthy church communities. Together, they unpack myths surrounding church growth, discuss the challenges of pastoral burnout, and explore the essential role of small churches in the global kingdom. Whether you lead a large congregation or a small church, this conversation will challenge your perspective and inspire you to redefine success in ministry.

00:00 Introduction with Karl Vaters

2:55 Church size and church growth

5:51 Heart behind Desizing the Church

8:33 The truth about growth

12:24 Cost of obsession with church size

16:40 Myths about church growth movement

24:27 Impact on pastors and ministry leaders

28:13 Positive impact of desizing Karl’s church

31:49 Church growth done well

35:07 Where to buy Desizing the Church and connected resources

36:04 The Church Lobby podcast

37:18 AVAIL Journal and closing thoughts